The deceitful lie of “Free Will” belief-ism and teaching is from the author of all lies …….the serpent.

Gen 3:3  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

     Adam and Eve were the only two created living, breathing,( filled with the breath of God), humans which had free will.  They knew no evil, they communed with the Lord.  Adam was first instructed by the Lord God, to not eat of the tree, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”.

Gen 2:8  And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 2:16  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

       Adam and Eve only knew of good, for they communed with the Lord within the Garden of Eden, they lived according to His Spoken Word, until the serpent came to deceive.  The serpent’s lie was to create the separation between God and His created man.  The serpent who is the Devil, was envious, and his desire was to be like the most High. Pride was found in him, and he wanted to be worshiped.

Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Eze 28:15  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

       So as we can read, pride was at the root of the devil’s demise.  And the temptation towards Eve was to disbelieve God by making her doubt, so a choice “ye shall be as gods” was being offered, pride was the root.  Once they partook of the forbidden fruit, they became self-aware: “Gen 3:7  And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”  At that moment they died spiritually, and eventually they would die naturally , so they were cut off from communing with their creator and God, and once realized they were naked (self-aware) they “covered” themselves with fig leaves, this is the first self-works , by covering their nakedness, and then hiding from the Lord.

      This act brought forth the violence of Death unto all of God’s creation, which was originally created perfect, or as the Lord  stated; “God saw, that it was good”.  This act brought forth death unto all things, therefore Adam and Eve became dead in their trespasses and sins, which were passed unto all humankind.  1Co_15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

      The lie of “Free will” is found in these words; Gen 3:5  “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”  Knowing good and evil means we are “so-called” free to be able to choose between good and evil, and make our decisions based on this Knowledge, hence,  Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.  To be able to choose between good and evil means we dwell in death.  Which means those that believe that we have the “free will” to choose God, or Jesus and to follow Him, while we dwell in death, are literally believing that there is some good within them (pride) to choose good by choosing God to go to heaven, (which is good) instead of going to hell  (they are saving themselves) so they reject the evil, (which is bad, I mean think about it, who in their right mind would want to go to hell?).   This is really playing god, (and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil) to be able to choose due to the knowledge of knowing good and evil.

      I do realize that there will be an outrageous amount of rage from those who do believe in “Free Will”, but the Lord’s word stands on it’s own.  I have run across a number of people who do believe in this lie, and their rage against those that believe that salvation is a gift given from the Lord  unmerited, and against their human will, is the proof that they react out of fear and pride, for they do not desire to admit that they are absolutely destitute in the capability of choosing God.  The religious folk during the Lord’s time was proof of that.  He found NO FAITH in the midst of Israel.

     I pray the Lord will bless this writing and grant true understanding to those deceived by the free will teaching, and to those whom the Lord has predestined unto salvation, that they will see the light and be granted salvation through the works of the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified.  For it is the Lord that does chose us, no one dead in their sins chooses the Lord, they’re just not able too, for only life exists and comes from the Lord of all things created. Amen…

 

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64  But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66  From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Joh_15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh_15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

         The Lord bless each and everyone of you.

         In His Eternal Love……

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70 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Lollie
    Aug 29, 2012 @ 20:51:59

    8.29.2012
    Wow! I’m not quite sure where to put all of that.
    I am not a ‘free will-er”, in the sense that I can do whatever I want free-will.
    Like murder, steal, cheat etc., because I think I might be free agent.
    I am free to sin, however, but it is my honest desire to not sin. However,
    John told the Church that ‘if we do sin, we have an Advocate with the Father,
    Jesus Christ, the Righteous.

    I don’t accept the extreme understanding of Calvin’s Free Will, which is really
    Augustine’s (354 AD – 439 AD).
    However, I do believe I can make choices, (which is an act of my will) which I do each and every day.
    So I think that defining exactly what you mean by free-will would be a good
    point of reference.
    I also believe that I responded to God’s call of salvation to my soul.
    That was an act of will. So I don’t know if the word ‘free’ is in that or not,
    but I was ‘free’ to do so, or not to do so. I was asked the question and
    I responded with a yes. My whole walk with the Lord these past 40 years
    has been one of accountability (on my part) and of yielding (on my part),
    which requires an act of will, my will.
    So, I am genuinely not fully understanding what you mean by no one
    having ‘free will’, and if they do that they are somehow in error.
    The very fact that I now know ‘good and evil’ requires that I act on either
    one. The either/or of this requires that I act willingly or wilfully.
    Since, I have met Christ, He has taught me how to respond willingly and
    with my whole heart.
    I have no rage. Some people believe and some do not.
    I do not think either necessitates or negates salvation.
    I stand on Ephesians 2: 8,9 I know that salvation is a gift, not of works.
    I certainly did not nor could I ever work for what I have in Christ.
    It’s cost and richness is far beyond my ability.
    I think it more important to ‘be rightly related to Him everyday, in every
    way, by His grace and keeping power’, which astounds my simple natural
    person.
    I cannot imagine what it must have been like to have ever been ‘only good’,
    as Adam and Eve were before the Fall. How horrible it must have been
    for them to have lost so much in that moment of time. But God already
    had a Lamb in the waiting.
    So, I hope my thoughts here explain in some measure where I come from
    and where I stand.
    I am of the same mind concerning whether a person is pre-trib, mid-trib,
    post-trib, pre-millenial, post-millenial, what I call secondary concerns in
    relation to sound core doctrines. Whichever one one holds to as long as
    they don’t put folks in jail or have them beheaded for differing I do not
    make it my concern.
    Lollie

    Reply

  2. cal4u
    Aug 29, 2012 @ 22:47:19

    Dear Lolly, I am talking about “Free Will salvation”. I am making the point that no-one is able to ‘willfully’ choose the Lord of their “own” accord. Not by intellect, nor human reasoning, nor by the will of another. People come to know the Lord because He gives them the gift to hear, then to believe. When I came to know the Lord, He came to me, I had no other recourse but to believe, because He opened my understanding concerning my sin, and my ears to hear, and then the grace to believe, like Paul, there was no way I could say no, for I met the Lord, and knew He was real, and that He was God.

    Far too many believe by accepting the Lord with their mind via prayer, lead by another does save them. I was one of those when I was a child around 10 years of age possibly a bit younger. I through that prayer was told to believe that I was then saved, but I was not.

    I followed the will of another to be saved, but it was not a true conviction nor repentance by the Lord HIMSELF. This did not happen until I was in my late twenties.
    It is God, once we are saved, who does bring about our sanctification, and sometimes even while saved we still have areas where we are in bondage to certain sins, and little by little, step by step, precept upon precept, HE gets us there.
    The Word says “it is God which worketh in you” Php_2:13 “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure”. It is He which worketh His Will both to be saved in Him, and our sanctification after we know Him.

    Being born-again, saved by grace, births us into a living relationship with Him. In a matter of speaking He restores us to that place which was lost due to Adams disobedience. Then He starts the process of dealing with all the anti-God fleshly ways. He allows us to make our own decisions, but sooner or latter those decisions will lead us into mischief and other sins, or we get caught up into false beliefs, and doctrines. But He does it to reveal to us our “fleshly ways”. Many times we make wrong decisions because we DO NOT KNOW of HIS WAYS, especially when we are babes in Christ. We are ignorant.
    But this only can happen when we truly become His, by being born again of His Spirit.

    So basically I’m only bringing this up in regards to Salvation. Look how many so-called men of God who have said the “sinners prayer” are truly not born of God by Jesus Christ, but of their own doing! This is why so many are leading so many into the Anti-Christ system. They are religious, and their so-called salvation is of works, not by grace, even though they may teach they were saved by grace.

    I hope this helps you to understand what I’m trying to get across.
    And by the way bringing up Calvin to me means nothing, I have never read his writings. I’ve been taught by the Lord through the opening of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit.

    Thank you for your response, I pray the Lord will help you to place it where He desires!
    The Lord bless you….
    In His Eternal Love…

    Reply

    • Lollie
      Sep 07, 2012 @ 21:18:02

      Sept 9. 2012
      I don’t know if my head is hard or what. I seem to not be getting the gist of
      your beliefs regarding ‘free will’.
      The bottom line for me is that Christ died so that we might be reconciled to God, through Christ’s redeeming blood, from that we are justified before a Holy God.
      When Christ came to me in 1973 and with the most tender love offered me
      this new birth (which I did not understand, but I was utterly drawn by His love
      and holiness) I said yes. I could have said not, but how could I say no to
      the incredible presence of love and holiness. He let me see how dreadfully
      lost I was, and I saw in that moment also the helplessness of my person and that I was headed to a Christless grave. And then Jesus rescued me. I only know that I responded freely and with out coercion. Thus it has been these past 40 years that I have walked with my Lord. I do not know Him in any other way.
      I think also that any believer can encourage another regardless of their gender.
      Certainly I have been instrumental many times in the past 40 years in ministering
      God’s truth and love to both men and women, and the fruit has borne the fact that God was in it. I would not ‘lead’ a group of men, I am not called to that, but certainly I have had many opportunities to speak on behalf of Christ to both men and women.
      I think sometimes that we are so hard in our particular beliefs and how we see things that we forget that we are not infallible, God is. We can be mistaken, and we often see things through our own experiences or impressions. I am always
      careful to preface what I ‘think’, or even what I ‘believe’ by saying “this is how I
      see it”. There are many ‘thinkings’ and ‘seeings’ on free will, and I personally
      do not adhere to any of them except that the Scripture supports God’s grace and
      redemption and man’s responsibility to respond to it. Yes, it is a free gift, and wonderfully so. The wisdom of God shines in this: not of works because man
      would boast. We know that.
      I think we need to be gracious to one another and forgiving and kind and long suffering. It was Jesus’ will for us actually. He left us a new commandment.
      I don’t want to get bogged down in disputes of what I believe, or what anyone
      believes, let me see the fruit. I know people who can quote the Bible pretty well backwards, but what of their fruit in righteousness, what of their fruit in love,
      in kindness, in gentleness, in things that are true.
      My life gets shorter the longer I live. I hunger to love God more and to be a
      sweet smelling savour for Jesus. To be always ‘rightly related to Him’. What sins do I have that allow the ‘foxes to nibble at the vine?” What temperament robs me
      of His fellowship? What Christian graces do I have that minister to others?
      These things are important. Yes, it is very important in all ages to have discernment regarding the times we are in, but this discernment needs to be
      pickled in grace, in love, in godly temperament. Lollie

      Reply

  3. stan burns
    Aug 30, 2012 @ 13:39:25

    Thanks for getting to the “root” of the problem with this perspective on Satan’s tactic with the tree of knowledge in Eden! His sin was pride and his temptations of God’s creatures (angelic and human) are to our pride. If we can’t have “the glory”, we want to at least get some credit and share the glory. “Free-will” teaching is a Satanic attack on God and His glory as sovereign creator and Lord of all things. God is not bound and limited by time and space as are all His creatures. God, planning and working from “eternity” has free-will to do “His good pleasure”. All of His creatures can only react or respond to what God has decreed and done! The only free-will we have is that of a convict in his prison cell, which is to say, NONE!

    Satan and proud people hate this and rage at the very idea that they can’t “choose” to live independent of God’s good will and works. They tantrum with cries of, “I will not be God’s robot!”, “I will decide what is good for me!”, “I will decide my own destiny!”, “Doing God’s will makes us slaves, I want FREEDOM!”, “God’s will is BORING!”, etc. The Son of God has come from eternity to earth to tell us the truth that is able to set us free; that God’s will is “good, acceptable and perfect”; that it begins with His love that made the ultimate sacrifice of His own divine/human life offered as a ransom to pay the horrible debt of the sins of mankind against a holy and righteous God; that it continues through all time by the faithful care and help of His Holy Spirit and that it will be completed by the destruction of Satan and all whom God has chosen not to save out of “the rebellion” when God’s Son is established forever as the Lord and Savior of all God’s creation. To Jesus, the Lamb of God, be all glory, honor and power forever and ever, Amen! SJ Burns

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Aug 30, 2012 @ 15:06:45

      Dear brother Stan, it is so good to hear from you! Thank you for the confirming word, it’s very encouraging. Yes the evil one’s lies feeds our pride, if he can cause us to believe that our fleshly will through works will grant us salvation he has won, and then we are slaves to him through the flesh. But may God be praised for His Everlasting spoken Word!
      Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
      Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
      Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
      Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
      Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
      Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
      Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
      Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
      Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
      Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
      AMEN!!!!
      The Lord bless you brother in Jesus,
      In His Eternal Love……..

      Reply

  4. Margaret Galbraith
    Aug 30, 2012 @ 14:39:03

    This is a well written blog which take can take us back to the moment we were born again and we can see our eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit. We could never have come to the new birth of our own choice… the same as in the natural birth, we had no choice in that either. When we were born into the Kingdom of God, for the first time we see ourselves as sinners and repent. God has “translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son from the kingdom of darkness” not by our will but His.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Aug 30, 2012 @ 15:20:52

      Dear Margaret, thanks for dropping by and reading this particular entry, your words confirm what the Spirit of the Lord is saying and has always stated…..”Without me you can do nothing”, it takes a while for this truth to sink into our fleshly minds, but due to His faithfulness unto His children, it is HE, that does get us there. Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
      We just trust in Him and His promises unto us….
      The Lord bless you…
      In His Eternal Love……

      Reply

  5. lost but found
    Sep 07, 2012 @ 01:22:04

    Dear sister,
    I am not familiar with you or your doctrinal stance, but I have been around the block a few times and whenever I see people making a point about “free will” I sense a Calvinist/Reformed mindset.

    I understand that the Lord draws men through the Holy Spirit and His Word, but it requires a response from mankind. God gave us the ability to make choices – some are good, some are harmful to ourselves and others. As to salvation, God draws either through His Word or a messenger who preaches the Gospel. The gift is put before a person and it is up to them whether or not to receive it. Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned. A gift has to be received and you can call it whatever you will, but it is an act of acceptance, of acknowledgment, an indication that one wishes to receive the Gift, understands and accepts the message presented and applies it to oneself.

    I don’t know if you are familiar with Calvinist/Reformed doctrine but it is false. TULIP is contrary to the Bible and the Gospel. This may not be your belief system and I hope it is not. I didn’t mean to jump to conclusions and if I did so, please forgive me.

    You sound like such a caring, gentle person. I don’t mean to be harsh, but I have come to loathe this false doctrine the more I see it rearing it’s ugly head. Thanks and God bless.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 07, 2012 @ 08:27:49

      Greetings Lost but found, first I would like to state that I am a brother in the Lord Jesus Christ, not a woman. Maybe it’s the creative way I designed my blog that would make you think that. I should probably add some further personal info.

      Next I thank you for taking the time to respond to this blog article and sharing your beliefs.

      As you read my blog, if you so desire, you will come to know my “doctrinal stance”. I believe in the Simplicity of the Gospel that is presented in my KJV bible that I have had since 1978, given to me as a gift by a group of people in a home fellowship a couple of months after the Lord came and saved me. There is a bit of my history in the ‘About’ section and in the ‘Testimony Category’ of this blog.

      I would like to state that I’m not familiar with “Calvinist/Reformed mindset”, I have heard about it, but have never studied it, the same goes with TULIP. I have heard about it and read some of it, but it had nothing to do with influencing me in what the Lord’s Word teaches. I received the gift of salvation when the Lord opened my eyes concerning my sin. You can read it from the above mentioned sections of this blog. I had no choice in rejecting it, very much similar to Apostle Paul’s conversion, He called me, I saw my sin and error, and then was granted repentance, then forgiven, and forever sealed by the Holy Spirit. Like Paul, I had no choice, I saw, I heard, and I believed, it’s that simple. Because God gave me the faith to believe in Him, and God granted me the gift of repentance.

      I have had experience with people similar to you who attack outright without giving any Biblical Stance. It is obvious you don’t believe God’s word shared in this article, so obviously you are blind to the truth, and pride is your culprit. I believe in God’s Word concerning the false teaching on Free Will, and will back it up further with God’s Word. If you loathe this teaching, then you loathe God’s written Word, your argument is with the Lord and His written word, I stand on it and shall not be moved.

      I pray the Lord will grant you the grace to truly see His Truth. And “if” you desire to converse further on this from a Biblical perspective then please do, other wise I will not participate in a tyrannical emotional tirade of accusations. And if you are a woman, then please remember your place according to the Lord’s scripture, I do not and will not accept a woman being bullish towards my person, a son of God.

      In His Eternal Love…..

      Reply

  6. lost but found
    Sep 07, 2012 @ 14:19:35

    Oh wow……..where do I begin? First, I don’t know how I got the impression you were of the feminine gender. My mistake. Quite a few discernment blogs that I follow are hosted by women. I guess in your opinion that would be an error. And obviously a very big one in your estimation. I am a woman, but not of the Jezebel spirit. In fact, my husband values my counsel and we work in tandem according to the Scriptures. We have different giftings and any relationship is a challenge, but we both seek to glorify Him and try to demonstrate a mutual respect for one another.

    Am not sure what you mean by “bullish” toward your person and admonishing me to “remember my place”. Sir, my place is in the heavenlies with my Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ and until He comes for me or I meet Him in the air, my place is here on this earth to do my Father’s business, that of sharing the Gospel and discipling new believers – women.

    With all due respect sir, you may not be familiar with Calvinist TULIP, but that is exactly what you are promoting here as regards salvation. If you are comparing yourself to the Apostle Paul and his Damascus Road conversion, I think you err.

    The Bible is full of verses that call for a response to the Gospel. Many hear but few believe and accept. I could list verse after verse that demonstrates that God draws and man responds. Mankind is free to reject God’s precious sacrifice.

    If God gave you no choice but to accept Him, why is not every one saved? When I was saved, I heard the Gospel message and responded. I was not forced to do so. The Bible says that it is the love of God that leads us to repentance. God is not willing that any should perish. John 3:16 I have presented the Gospel many times and it is clear that each individual is making a choice whether to put it off, reject it totally or receive it joyfully.

    You may not be familiar with Calvinism, but what you are saying about Free Will is pretty much what they teach. They teach that God has picked out who will be saved and who will be damned, it is cut and dried and those who are not chosen are automatically condemned. This is not the God of the Bible. Calvinism teaches that Christ did not die for everyone (Limited Atonement).

    God raised up teachers and expositors of the Word for a purpose. Yes, the Holy Spirit teaches each one of us through study of the Word, but we are also to benefit from the gift of teaching God gives to others to rightly divide the Word.
    If we fail to do so we do so to our peril. Of course we are to use discernment and that comes through the Holy Spirit also.

    If you consider this an emotional diatribe, you falsely judge my heart. God hates false doctrine and anything that compromises His precious Gospel message and the Bible says that we are to hate what God hates. And there is nothing worse than getting the method of salvation wrong.

    God doesn’t force anyone to believe. Christ knocks on the door of our heart and the Holy Spirit convicts, We can respond and receive or reject.

    As to the believer, we have freedom to obey the Holy Spirit and God’s Word or not. But if we are children of God there will be consequences, or as the Bible states, a chastening. We will not lose our salvation, but He loves us too much to not discipline us.

    If you don’t post this to your blog, I understand. I just hope that you won’t automatically discount what I have said here because I am a woman. I am just a person who loves the Lord and His truth. I mean no disrespect.

    Reply

  7. cal4u
    Sep 07, 2012 @ 22:23:36

    Greetings Lost but found, it’s no problem with mistaking me for a woman.
    I also frequent other blogs authored by women, I have no problem with women sharing the word of God, and do it in the Spirit of Love and gentleness even when dealing with those who walk in error to the Lord’s word. So I don’t think it is a very big error, as you put it, “I guess in your opinion that would be an error. And obviously a very big one in your estimation.” To the contrary, as long as they walk in the Spirit of the Lord’s meekness, humility and proper Biblical judgement I am blessed by their writings.

    Regarding me promoting Calvinist/TULIP teaching, that is not correct, because I only promote the Lord’s word regarding salvation, and that is all I will state concerning that. I’m not a Calvinist, I don’t follow man, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ and His revealed word, I’m a disciple. And as referring to Paul, I used it as an example, like Paul, I also against my will was stopped by God and shown the Light and heard Him speak convicting me of my sin. I was not in any manner trying to compare Paul’s call to being an Apostle to my conversion, so I have not erred, you misunderstood the meaning of the example.

    May I suggest that you list some of those verses you are referring to according to your statement “I could list verse after verse that demonstrates that God draws and man responds.” Because that is what I requested of you, it would be appreciated or otherwise there is no point in continuing this Biblical discussion. Now in response to “Many hear but few believe and accept.” Joh_8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    Joh_8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. So they were hearing Him speak, but they were not “spiritually” understanding or hearing His Words, which were life!

    Now in response too: “If God gave you no choice but to accept Him, why is not every one saved?” The same reason the two men with Paul, they saw, but they did not hear, because it was not given unto them to hear.
    Act 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
    Only Saul was chosen at that time.

    Again I reiterate I’m not a Calvinist, and I don’t care what they teach, if they teach each believer is chosen and predestined to be saved, then they are correct, as the scriptures do testify to:
    Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

    I could go on there are numerous other scriptures that refute your view. As far as “Limited Atonement” is concerned, the scriptures do teach ALL that are to be saved shall be saved. That does not sound limited to me.
    Anyone who is not saved is already condemned, they are not condemned because they won’t believe, ALL are condemned because they are dead in their trespasses and sins.

    I don’t think this was an emotional tirade, so I have not misjudged your heart. We agree God does hate false teaching and false doctrine. There is only one way of Salvation, being given the gift of faith from God to believe in Him. There is never a method too salvation, it is all a Predestined choice by God as Paul writes in the Ephesians.

    Now in ending, when we are believers in Jesus Christ, we still need His Strength, Grace and His Power to obey His commands, as Jesus stated, “you can do nothing without me”. There are also consequences in trying to live a Holy life in our own strength, pride runs very deep in our souls, and yes our Heavenly Father will chastise us when needed to correct us. And He shall never lose one of His Sheep, for we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We may loose many a rewards, but we still will have our salvation, that is a promise that is written, for it was spoken by God Himself! Amen!

    The Lord bless you and grant you grace to see and to hear.
    In His Eternal Love…..

    Reply

  8. cal4u
    Sep 07, 2012 @ 22:53:41

    Dearest Lollie, whoa……..first that love is the “irresistible grace”, we have no choice but to say yes, because that is the Love of God that lead us to repentance. I’m not arguing with you here dear one. I was just reiterating what I was referring that “free will” is not applicable in salvation. He choose you, then gave you the grace to accept that love which lead to repentance. I understand, He gave you the grace to accept His love and forgiveness, that’s all. We are on the same page, I think. Your salvation was definitely not of works! Amen!

    But where did all this other stuff come into the picture? That is not even the topic.
    It’s a bit confusing to switch the topic. ok?
    Be at peace and the Lord bless you.
    In His Eternal Love……

    Reply

  9. John Chingford
    Sep 09, 2012 @ 05:40:21

    The Bible teaches us that God is full of Love, Compassion, Mercy, He is Just and Righteous in all His ways. Those who teach that we have no freewill in our salvation and that only those who God chooses through His predetermined plan, will be saved, actually defame God’s character by (effectively) teaching that God creates some humans for the sole purpose of sending them to an eternal torment of hell. This actually teaches something about God which is NOT true!

    The scriptures teach that “He who did not SPARE His own Son”. Why would He (out of a nature of love) create humans for the sole purpose of (effectively) sending them to an eternal hell? That would be the case, if (as they teach) some have no chance of repenting because they are not of the elect. If they are incapable of choosing God because they are DEAD, then EFFECTIVELY God has created souls to be tormented for eternity. How can God be a God of Love and also be Righteous and Just if He did such things? How can you trust a God like that? No wonder Atheism has taken on in a massive way because “how can you believe in a God like that?” No, I cannot believe in a God like that because that is NOT His nature.

    What about “it is not God’s Will that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance”. If we do not have free will and cannot choose God (unless He chooses us) then everyone would be saved because that verse says that it is not His Will that any should perish. “who can resist the Will of God?” However, we know that the Bible teaches that many are on the wide road of destruction and many will not go to Heaven. Therefore, something does not add up.

    We know that the Bible is inerrant, but our line of reasoning (systematic theology) is fallible. Therefore those who teach in “no freewill” must be wrong (in the light of the above verse) and are effectively defaming the character of God by teaching that God is a liar because they would have to teach (to be consistent) that ALL would be saved, when elsewhere it teaches that not all would be saved. So establishing there is a problem with their theology, we must consider what the WHOLE bible is ACTUALLY teaching.

    Regarding election, I believe that means that God knows the end from the beginning, so He knows in advance ALL those who will choose Him. They are therefore all (pre) destined to become children of God and therefore effectively are the elect. In the same way that God foreknew “before the foundation of the Earth” of His redemption plan in Jesus. “the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the Earth”, i.e. He knew the end from the very beginning.

    It is not God’s Will that any should perish but God has clearly given all men freewill to choose or reject Him. This is why not all are saved although God loves the WHOLE world. God wants everyone to choose Him and has reached down to us to reveal His amazing love and sent His Holy Spirit to convict all men of sin, but they can still (out of freewill) resist God despite everything God has done to aid us in choosing Him. This is blatantly obvious in REALITY! Despite that He has given us His Son as a sacrifice.

    The scriptures are clear (to me) that those God saves are eternally kept by Him. The conclusion SURELY must be that God HAS given us free will to choose or reject Him, but if we choose Him, He then enables us to receive Him and then empowers us to be kept by Him eternally. When the bible discusses predestination and election I understand it to mean that God knew in advance who would receive or reject Him. He knew from the very beginning of time! Therefore, effectively the elect are predestined, chosen because God sees the end from the beginning.

    The key to understanding these things is our approach to our theology.

    “I use a systematic approach by studying the WHOLE Bible to understand the whole counsel and eternal plan of God with all its micro and macro parts BEFORE I formulate my theology. First I formulate FROM SCRIPTURE the essential starting points of my position

    For example, that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, effectively written by God therefore is fully true and can be trusted. God exists and consists in 3 persons as a Godhead, that He is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent (all of these are clearly taught in Scripture). That man is a sinner who needs to be saved and Jesus died to save us from our sins. Then, what the Bible tells us about God’s Character, eg He is Holy, Perfect, Righteous and Just and is LOVE. He is faithful and His plans and purposes are irrevocable (of course these are just a few examples of many certainties).

    These certainties are the foundation for interpreting all other scripture. We must always bear these things in mind. Regarding the various theologies like Calvinism , Arminianism etc., they go beyond these things and assume other things to be true (gnostic philosophies) BEFOREHAND and then go about proving it from scripture.

    The right approach should be to formulate theology from the starting position of the Biblical certainties and then continuously modify and re-evaluate the overall theological position as we go along, whenever we are proved right or wrong by scripture. My overall position had already been determined by many years of studying the Bible, so I systematically examine, re-evaluate and modify this position in the light of newer scriptural revelation. For example, I constantly readjust my eschatological position and thereby am able to learn SO MUCH MORE regarding the end times

    When I use the term macro I mean the external general outworkings and by micro I mean its individual specific internal working and how it can be applied to us specifically. As an example, macro could refer to “the eternal redemptive plan of God” including “once saved always saved” whereas micro could refer to “all things work together for our good” or “we are being changed from one degree of glory to another”.

    I believe the value of my approach is that I am open enough to remain teachable by the Holy Spirit (not brainwashed into any specific systematic theology) and humble enough to adjust my theology. My approach enables me to examine EVERY word, sentence, passage, chapter, book, in the Bible, specifically getting these words into their right context and NOT ignore anything.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 09, 2012 @ 10:48:33

      Greetings John and thank you for viewing and commenting concerning this article. May I suggest we stay to the topic at hand regarding the scriptures mentioned in this blog entry. If you have a biblical stand against this interpretation of the scriptures given within this article, then please attend to that which is stated here.

      I do not and have not ever attended nor studied the Word of the Lord through any bible school or course. I wait upon the Lord and let Him through the Holy Spirit to guide me in my reading of His Word and to give me HIS understanding of His Word, since He is the author of the Bible. If there is something I do not understand, I wait for Him to give me His understanding in His time and not in my time. I do not try to “think” with my human fleshly understanding, this I believe is why so many go off the beaten track. I by God’s grace have learned and am still learning not to be presumptuous
      .
      The KJV is the only version I do utilize, for I found other copies or editions of the bible found very much wanting in staying to the truth of His spoken word. I do not practice, nor do I believe in any form of method in studying His Word with the exception of taking scriptures within it’s context and try to stay within that context. Which I think is what you are trying to convey. I do not understand your “macro” type of thinking, so with that being said, do not try to “make” me understand. I rather keep to the simplicity of God’s written word.

      Faith is a gift given by the Lord through Jesus Christ, you can read my last entry to see from where I believe this and accept it. Faith in God comes from God, the natural fallen sinful man has not this Faith within, it all comes from God Himself, a person must be born of God’s spirit in order to follow Him through His Son Jesus Christ who is the giver of this gift of life, for all life and truth is found in Him, and given by Him, as the scriptures state. I stand on His Word, not man’s.

      The Lord bless you and grant you His Understanding of His Word.
      In His Eternal Love……

      Reply

    • Lollie
      Sep 11, 2012 @ 11:06:41

      Sept 11, 2012
      Wow, where did you come from?
      With regard to your explanation regarding ‘free will’ I concur. I am not a biblical scholar, but like you I have studied and read and reread the Bible many, many times over the past almost 40 years. In my ‘pilgrim’ past I did follow men’s teachings and I, inevitably, became very disappointed. They, like me, are fallible, and so therefore cannot speak for absolute truth to absolute truth. It was a good
      lesson learned.
      But that has not closed me off from listening, looking into other’s opinions, but with the understanding that the ultimate authority is Biblical truth plus nothing. I do confess to being a student of the KJV, and yes I do look into other paraphrases and translations for greater clairity.
      I wholly believe and convinced that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. That’s my true and solid foundation. Some folks, by degree, believe in the
      theological system of TULIP. I actually and utterly reject it. Why?
      Because it is man’s reasoning, not just Calvin’s, for he inherited much of
      his religious philosophy from Augustine, and others, over the centuries, have
      added to it. Ouch!
      I think that much of what we argue about and disagree upon add very little to Christian maturity. How about growing in grace, love, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness . . . these graces will take us a lifetime. How about sharing the
      overcoming works of sanctifying grace?
      Some believe in pre-trib, or mid-trib, or post-trib, others find solace in
      believing in the pre-milleniual rapture of the Church. Does what I believe
      regarding these ‘insoluble’ arguments really matter? How is Christ formed in
      me? Is He? What about hidden sins? What about my loving my brethren
      in spirit and in truth. These things we ought to be about, not moons and
      seasons and gendering of questions that will take the actual occurrence
      of the event to know indeed ‘if’ these things I have (personally) believed
      were so or not.
      I admire your method of study. I know it takes discipline and love of course
      for God’s inerrant testimony. I love the Word of God. I think we need to
      defend God’s testimony in these dark days, not our ‘personal theology’.
      What do you think?
      Lollie

      Reply

  10. lost but found
    Sep 09, 2012 @ 11:36:03

    Cal4u, you miss the point. John is not saying anyone needs a “system” to study the Bible. He is simply saying that in order to rightly divide the Word we have to consider the context in which it is written and it will not be in conflict with any other portion of the Word. God has given us a mind with faculties and He expects that we use it, guided by His Spirit. Taking verses out of context is a dangerous thing to do.

    In your view of free will being a lie, you are putting the cart before the horse. God created mankind with a free will. He did not create puppets. It started in the Garden when Adam and Eve made a bad choice.

    To say that mankind has a free will, the ability to either accept or reject God’s invitation to receive His Son for the propitiation and atonement for our sins does not invalidate the sovereignty of God. Rather the idea that God enlightens people to His truth before they are saved is actually an insult to God. You seem to have a misunderstanding of God’s sovereignty. It seems that your personal experience has influenced your view of the Bible.

    Considering the circumstances you relate as to your conversion, according to you there was no Bible, but some sort of supernatural experience. This seems to have influenced your perception of how God works in salvation. Also, I wonder if there was anyone to disciple you and ground you in the fundamentals of the faith? Jesus states in the Great Commission that we are not only to share the Gospel, but make disciples. If God is arbitrarily saving people, why do we need evangelists, missionaries or others who share the Gospel?

    The Bible says, “come, let us reason together”. It is not a sin to use reason.
    God does not force anyone to accept Him. Salvation is a GIFT, it is offered and must be received or rejected. That requires a choice.

    God is not willing that any should perish, do you agree? If that is true, how can you possibly take the ability to choose out of the equation of salvation?
    If you remove that, you are saying that God chooses some for salvation and some for hell from birth. That my friend, is an attack on the character of God. He is a God of love and mercy and Christ died for all. The Holy Spirit convicts and only after one believes in his heart does the Holy Spirit come to reside in one, not before. There is a difference between the convicting of lost sinners and indwelling the saved one to enlighten God’s Word.

    I truly hope you grasp this. Many who have taken your view have fallen into error. Yes, that is quite possible even for those who are saved. Satan never rests. People like Lollie, John and myself are not seeking to argue. We are simply standing for truth and are concerned that you are in error by calling free will a deceitful lie. We care about you and we care about God’s truth. Not to imply that you do not, but I hope you will listen because we also have the Holy Spirit and read the Word and are trying to minister to you.

    I have not quoted actual scripture and given addresses as I am limited on time right now. I have gone to John’s blog and he does give specifics. I hope you will check it out. God’s blessings to you.

    Understanding of God’s Word comes through the Holy Spirit

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 09, 2012 @ 13:01:06

      Lost but found, I would appreciate that you would respond to my conversation with you and please do not participate in my dialogue with another person, this is a one on one with each individual, singularly.

      I will not respond to anything that is listed in this response, for it’s not keeping with our discussion prior to John’s comment.
      With the exception of your statement; “Considering the circumstances you relate as to your conversion, according to you there was no Bible, but some sort of supernatural experience. This seems to have influenced your perception of how God works in salvation. Also, I wonder if there was anyone to disciple you and ground you in the fundamentals of the faith?”.

      My response to you is this; your statement “according to you there was no Bible”, sounds accusatory, as if you think I’m lying, but I assure you that is the truth, I found a tract on the subway, which the Lord used to a certain extent, the rest was all of the Lord’s doing, but that did not, as you presumptuously put it, “seems to have influenced your perception of how God works” no, matter of fact it’s only been in the last several years that the Lord has been confirming my born again experience as His Work and nothing of mine, I did not seek Him out, He found me. As He called Lazarus to arise, this he did for me to see Him. The Lord is my teacher, He has been disciplining me, and grounding me in the faith, just as He has done for many others. He has used some teachers to undue false teachings, but pretty much He has been discipling me.

      If you would be so kind to respond to my reply personally to you, that is the only honest and truthful way to communicate, if you do not, then I can not take you seriously. I have taken the time to respond to your reply properly and orderly, and I desire this to be handled in like manner, it’s proper and shows respect.

      I do hope you understand, this keeps order according to how I desire to run my blog. And may I suggest if you don’t have the time, it’s best you respond properly when you do have the time, for this is worth the time to be taken if we desire to have a proper discussion, and God is worth taking that time. He is a God of specifics and He is not rushed. If that does not suit you, then that is your choice.

      I thank you and the Lord bless you.
      In His Eternal Love……..

      Reply

  11. lost but found
    Sep 09, 2012 @ 15:48:04

    Okee Dokee. That is quite a strange way of conducting a discussion on a topic. One cannot even refer to another person’s comments or agree with them? Well, it IS your blog, so you rule the roost.

    So Cal4u, I have a question for you. If God is not willing that any should perish, and that all should come to repentance as stated in 2nd Peter 3:9, than why is not all of mankind saved if there is no choice in the matter?

    Jesus speaks in Luke 10:16:

    16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

    Since this is one thing I do not like about the King James, it does not show proper respect for God and the Lord Jesus by not capitalizing the pronouns that refer to them, I quote it also from the NKJV. I think you will see that the meaning is quite the same.

    16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

    Obviously our Lord is saying that He can be rejected. He was rejected by those He came to save and He is rejected by those who refuse His gift of salvation.
    Rejection is an act of the will.

    What say ye?

    2 Timothy 3:16-17

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 09, 2012 @ 16:24:05

      Lost but found, I have explained what I expect from persons who desire a sincere and truthful discussion, you obviously have a problem with what others request, by your sarcasm.

      I will not continue a discourse with you, until you respond accordingly.
      Thank you and the Lord bless you.

      In His Eternal Love……

      Reply

  12. lost but found
    Sep 09, 2012 @ 16:45:08

    Cal4u, I did not mean to be sarcastic and if it came across that way I apologize. I believe in honest dialog and I was just being honest in my view. It seems you come up with all kinds of ways to keep from addressing the issue. If one authors a blog can’t one expect to receive comments and even disagreements as to what you have posted? I am really confused about that. I thought the purpose of a blog was not a monologue if comments are allowed. I was just acknowledging that you are the blogster and you can set down your own rules. I was respecting that, but at the same time I was expressing some consternation. Again, honest and open comunication.

    May I kindly request that you please answer the question I put forth with in which I used Scripture? It was asked from an honest heart and I hope that you will receive it as such.

    Of course you are not obligated to answer, but I do believe it is a valid question pertinent to the topic. I assume that we can agree that we are seekers of God’s truth.

    Thanks and God bless.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 09, 2012 @ 18:03:52

      Greetings lost and found, once you address the scripture given in the main message of this blog entry, I would gladly respond to your inquiries. You need to point out how the scripture which disproves “Free Will” is unbiblical. Adam and Ever were the only ones who had free will, they were without sin, as stated in the text given within the main message of this entry.

      You should be trying to disprove this message before giving other scriptures for me to respond too. You have not responded to the scriptures given you from Sept 7th, why should I answer yours when you have skipped mine.

      And I’ve laid out the requirements for discussion in the Sept 7th response also, it seems you are evading the issue.
      Any furtherance of this type of communication with you, I shall not continue. You are the only one I do have an issue with amongst all who have commented on this blog.

      Thank you and the Lord bless you.
      In His Eternal Love…..

      Reply

  13. lost but found
    Sep 09, 2012 @ 21:15:58

    Cal4u, you said: Again I reiterate I’m not a Calvinist, and I don’t care what they teach, if they teach each believer is chosen and predestined to be saved, then they are correct, as the scriptures do testify to……

    Then you went on to cherry pick verses, a tactic that all false teachings do to prove the point. You are not rightly dividing the Word my friend. You have adopted false Calvinist theology without even knowing it.

    To say that those who were with Paul on the Damascus Road that didn’t hear were not chosen by God is partially true. Paul was set apart for a specific task, a special calling. That cannot possibly be used as a plausible support for God chosing one person to go to heaven and one to go to hell.

    I gave you verses that you choose to ignore. Sir, I am sorry to say this, but your words indicate you are full of pride.

    If you wish to carry on individual conversations I suggest you do it via private e-mail. Otherwise what is the purpose of a blog that allows comments? And if your readers are not allowed to include comments by other contributors I find that quite odd considering the format of other blogs I follow where people are allowed to interact.

    I was wrong about there not being a Bible present at your conversion, and there was a tract. I do want to correct myself on that. But God does not speak audibly to anyone in this dispensation and it appears that is what you are claiming.

    This will be my last attempt to reason with you so consider this “conversation” terminated. You seem to consider yourself an authority on the Word and reasoning with you is fruitless. I would rather spend my efforts in evangelism and reaching the lost and those for whom Christ died. And He DID die for ALL mankind and ALL are welcome who will believe and trust the Gospel message. The Word says that God is no respecter of persons – It is sad to see you have such a limited view on the mercy of God which is so wide and deep.

    Those who were crucified side-by-side with our Lord clearly show that one chose Jesus and the other didn’t. Christ did not choose the one thief over the other.

    Reply

  14. John Chingford
    Sep 10, 2012 @ 05:49:52

    Hi Cal

    Since you ask us to reply directly to the verses quoted by you within the OP (Opening Presentation) I will do just that.

    You start by assuming that Adam and Eve lost their freewill when they “died”. Actually the death they died was spiritual and it affected them physically resulting in a sudden gradual decaying of the body also. Their spiritual death was in essence a separation from God resulting in a dead spirit (different from the soul of man). In Ephesians 2:1 it says “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins”.. The question is at what point were they made alive? Was it before they received Christ into their hearts or afterwards? 2 Cor 5:17 states it was AFTERWARDS “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new”.

    A person becomes saved when they believe in Jesus and receive Him into their hearts. Basically the Holy Spirit makes us alive when He comes within us and makes us a new creation. Beforehand we are still dead in our sins but ABLE to make the freewill decision to receive Christ BEFOREHAND.

    You state that after Adam and Eve sinned they no longer had freewill. What about Cain who came along afterwards? Read Genesis 4:6-7

    ” So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

    Sounds like Cain had freewill???

    Now to the other verses you quoted from John 6 and John 15. It is important that we look at the context.

    In John 6 Jesus is discussing the conditions that cause people to choose or reject Jesus. The so-called “righteous” Jews had hardened their hearts to the message of Jesus. Jesus then explained (in possibly the most poignant verse in the chapter – verse 44) “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him”.

    However, Jesus also stated “many are called but few are chosen”. If we consider the verse which we are constantly asking you to comment on, it says “it is not God’s WILL that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. That implies freewill because God wants everybody to be saved. When Jesus said “many are called” I am sure that means (comparing scripture with scripture) that EVERYBODY is called. However, few respond to the call i.e freewill prevents them. The chosen are those who DO respond.

    In John 15 Jesus is talking to the apostles ONLY. He is saying that He chose them to be special ministers for spreading the gospel throughout the world. Jesus is not talking about the “elect”. Verse 19 says:

    “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you”.

    The emphasis of this teaching is that Jesus SEPARATED and empowered the apostles from the stains of the World for a special ministry. He chose to separate them. It is not talking about “election” here. God’s eternal plan is that ALL who come to Him will be subsequently expected to be separated from the “love of this world” and will be enabled to do so by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Please now refer to my previous comment (now that I have put it into context with your OP.

    Specifically I said “This is why not all are saved although God loves the WHOLE world. God wants everyone to choose Him and has reached down to us to reveal His amazing love and sent His Holy Spirit to convict all men of sin, but they can still (out of freewill) resist God despite everything God has done to aid us in choosing Him. This is blatantly obvious in REALITY! Despite that He has given us His Son as a sacrifice.”

    God reveals His love to many and by HIS power convicts them of sin but despite all this STILL few respond to it because they DO have freewill as was shown in the above example of Cain.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 11, 2012 @ 07:29:13

      Thank you for replying to the topic at hand. Here is my response: First you confirmed what I’ve just stated, their sin separated them from God. As stated Adam was made a “living soul”, Gen 2:7. Once sinned his soul was darkened, sin affected the soul. If the spirit is dead, then the soul is dead in trespasses and sin. So I don’t understand what you are trying to get at, you fail to explain,”(different from the soul of man)”.
      Then you jump to Ephesians2:1, which a furtherance of the predestined plan of God from Chapter 1 of Ephesians. In context it’s a confirmation of what continues on in Ephesians 2, please read verses 5&6 this relates to the same topic you are mentioning. 5)Even when we were dean in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) verse 6)And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ. then verse 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. This reveals and confirms what is taught in Eph 1. He quickens us while dead in sins, to see the truth convicts of sin, then we are cleansed by His blood.
      Now in context with verse 8, Cain offered up his own works to be accepted of God, Abel offered up the sacrifice, so Abel was found in favor due to his offering. Cain was already in sin by offering his own works. This is confirmed in the new testament; Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. And also 1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
      1Jn 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
      So you see Cain had not freewill, his works were of the wicked one, meaning he was of the devil. He through pride, being the first son, hated that he and his “works” were not good enough to please God, and hated Abel because he was accepted through the proper offering that God required. Pride was at the root. Sin was already there in Cain as the scriptures attest too. Abel in Matt 23:35 was the first martyr killed for righteousness sake. Again this is the same old story, self-works, versus saved by grace through faith. Cain was first born, Abel was second, since Abel was righteous, he respected Cain as first and would honor his older brother, and Cain would still retain the authority over him, this is why it is mentioned in the scripture, Gen 4:7 (second half) “And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.” Your bible version is found wanting, so it gives you a different picture, so you interpret in error.
      Now concerning 2 Cor5:17, has no correlation to Eph 2:1, you are not following your own rebuke towards me for taking verses out of context, this is what you have done. Verses 18 & 19 validates 2 Cor 5:17, for they follow: 2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
      2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
      So if we are in Christ it is due to the work of God Himself who has done the reconciling, not man and his works, for faith towards God comes from God as found in Jesus Christ:Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
      Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
      Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
      Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

      Now regarding John 6, Jesus was speaking to the Jews absolutely, but his words also refer to ALL men, if it was to the Jews only then it would have specified as such, but it is also meant for not only the Jews but Gentiles.
      Also regarding John 15, I am in agreement with you, that was specific to the Apostles, one being the devil, Judas. Thank you for pointing that out. But this is also found in Matt 20:16; Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. This speaks to all who are chosen for service Jews and Gentiles.
      Now concerning 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
      This you have taken out of context, this is Peter speaking to believers, “to us-ward”, they were having problems with certain individuals that were bringing in false teaching. This has nothing to do with what you are speaking about.
      Now my final statement is this, if God so loved the world, then why would Jesus Christ not pray for the whole world, but only those that were to be saved as found Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
      Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
      Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
      Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
      Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
      Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
      Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
      Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
      Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
      Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
      Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
      Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
      Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
      Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
      Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
      Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

      I have answered your questions, and you have responded to mine. The Lord bless you and I pray He give you the grace to see the truth, and see Him as He truly is.

      In His Eternal Love…….

      Reply

  15. John Chingford
    Sep 11, 2012 @ 15:23:25

    Hi Cal

    I have written a longer article on this subject within my blog, covering all of the things I have written here plus more. I added things on my article which I felt needed more clarity. Therefore, I advise that you take a look at it if you think I am not clear here within my comments on your article.

    As you ask me to clarify one specific point, I will respond here. This is an excerpt which I now copy and paste from my blog as a reply to your question re “soul”.:

    “Their bodies (Adam and Eve) were designed to live forever, but their sin had a massive affect on them. From that moment physical decay was set in motion in their bodies, but worse was that they became separated from God spiritually. They experienced spiritual death which was in essence the spirit within their bodies dying. It is the spirit of man that can connect with God, but that was now broken resulting in a dead spirit. This is not to be confused with the soul of man which remained alive but became a slave to the sinful desires of the flesh. The scriptures are clear that man is made up of body, soul and spirit – but that is another subject.”

    Reply

  16. Margaret Galbraith
    Sep 11, 2012 @ 20:22:19

    …”But who are you, O man to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him
    who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

    What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath- prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory- even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

    If you read all of chapter nine, you will see God says “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy” in verse 15 and verse 16… It does not, therefore , depend on man’s desires or effort, but on God’s mercy.

    You will find these verses are in context with all of Romans 9 … you who think you had any say in your salvation, will be shocked to find He chose you, you did not choose HIM and yes, dear John C, He did prepare some for destruction.

    Reply

  17. lost but found
    Sep 11, 2012 @ 20:46:08

    Cal said:
    Now my final statement is this, if God so loved the world, then why would Jesus Christ not pray for the whole world, but only those that were to be saved as found Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

    You have taken this out of context. The following verses surely prove that Jesus was not actually saying that He would only pray for a select few (otherwise these verses would be a contradiction by Paul and John):

    1 Timothy 2:5-6 makes it quite clear the Lord’s desire for mankind:
    2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; (not all the elect)
    2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    4 Who will have all men (not all the elect) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, (not for all the elect) to be testified in due time.
    And then in 1 John 2:2 Christ’s mission is again quite clear:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
    And again in Hebrews 2:9:
    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (not just for the elect)
    Again in John 1:29:
    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Emphasis added

    By saying that the refusal of an unregenerate person to submit to God and accept His free gift of salvation is due to the inability to do so is a serious, serious, assault against the very character of the Lord and the sacrifice of our Savior! To say that God arbitrarily condemns His creations, individuals to an eternal hell, and that he chooses NOT to draw them to Himself can be considered blasphemy!

    I find it interesting that amongst the blogs you follow there are several of Calvinist/Reformed theology.
    You referred in your original article to rage coming from those with opposing views. There is no rage or animosity here – only an abiding desire to defend the Gospel and the precious sacrifice of our Lord and the wideness or God’s mercy which is beyond our understanding. This is about iron sharpening iron, not about attacking anyone. If I have made any comments in my zeal that came across as unkind I apologize. I do not expect any more dialog as you have said, we have all spoken our piece and will leave it at that as far as I am concerned. I probably have violated your rules by referring to another poster’s comments, but I sensed a leading of the Spirit to place this final comment along with Scripture, not only for your sake, but for those who are influenced to believe that free will is a lie from Satan such as Margaret who just posted. There is no anger, just sadness and consternation at how such a belief could be embraced. Grace and peace to you.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 11, 2012 @ 22:06:19

      Lost and Found, I will disagree with you wholeheartedly, John 17 is not taken out of context, and in 1Tim 2, Paul is asking them to pray for those in authority so that they may live a peaceful life with holiness and honesty, and Paul states as you said: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
      1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
      1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
      And that is true ALL who God desires to be saved will be saved, and that is the elect. For all that are saved and added unto the Church is by God’s choosing.
      Act_2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
      So it’s the elect that is being saved. Because Not all men are saved, for they do not hear because they were not destined too. And it is a confirmation of John 17.

      I disagree with you your statement; “But God does not speak audibly to anyone in this dispensation and it appears that is what you are claiming.”
      Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. A relationship with the Lord God Almighty is the same intimate relationship that each true believer has had throughout the centuries, and the Bible is the proof of that, and I will NEVER deny that TRUTH by the Grace of God that dwells within my heart and soul. From Everlasting to Everlasting, let God be Praised! Amen!

      The Lord bless you.
      In His Eternal Love………..

      Reply

  18. savedbygrace58
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 00:06:29

    Hello,

    I wanted to comment on your teaching that free will is of the devil. I don’t understand why you think that man does not have free will. Choosing to believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and accepting this to be true is not being prideful. If anything being prideful would cause someone not to believe.

    Also your comment to lost but found were you said “And that is true ALL who God desires to be saved will be saved, and that is the elect.”. Well the following verse says something different.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    What this above verse is saying is that the Lord wants all to come to repentance.

    I had more that I wanted to write but for lack of time I will end my comment with the following verse,

    Joshua 24:15

    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    Reply

  19. Margaret Galbraith
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 04:22:15

    I think God himself makes things clear in Romans 9. “objects of wrath prepared for Destruction” How can you ignore HIM Lost but found?
    I must add, it is so sad to see “sheep” attacking each other like this in pride. If we need to exhort or reprove, we are to be gentle with one another while contending for the faith. The mark of the Christian is to love one another while not comprising the truth. I am so glad I wasn’t given the choice to be born again when I was birthed into the Kingdom, the same as I wasn’t given the choice to be birthed into the world the first time. I, as weak flesh, could not be trusted not to boast ‘ that I accepted Jesus! … As Jesus said, “you didn’t choose me, I chose you” It’s hard for puny man to admit “GOD DID IT HIS WAY”
    As for you dear loved ones who say, they “accepted Jesus as their Saviour” you did it by the will of GOD, not of yourselves. It was the Holy Spirit who enabled you, as He gave you the revelation of Jesus and birthed you into His Kingdom… It was years before I saw this so clearly. Our pride has to take a nosedive.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 12, 2012 @ 08:59:26

      Dear Margaret thank you for dropping by and sharing Romans 9, I forgot all about this writing which was authored by Paul and when I re-read it, this scripture truly explains it all! Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

      It’s a shame that there are those that accuse us for believing in a God that is not merciful. We know the mercy of our God, and his mercy still exists over the unbeliever as well. Does not the Word of God state that Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
      Those that know Him not are still blessed with the same natural fruits of this earth, has He not provided food for all the masses? Yes, but for most of the “world” this is all they will be blessed with. For God knows the hearts of man, and they are wicked, yet some are blessed with all riches, which are given by God to believers and non-believers alike, and others are not.

      It’s truly sad to see the pride of those that rant against the justice of a Holy and Sovereign God, whose mercies endureth forever. I know we both pray that those who walk in this pride and ignorance will be shown mercy by the Lord and grant them the gift to see Him as He truly is, and then they shall surely know the truth and be set free.

      I shall study this book and chapter more, I thank the Lord for the functions of His believers, we truly do assist one another in ministering His Love and Grace in Truth. For we truly do need one another and to Love one another as He has loved us.

      In His Eternal Love…..

      Reply

      • Margaret Galbraith
        Sep 12, 2012 @ 10:21:27

        It’s strange no one has commented on Romans 9, maybe it is because it is so clear it can not be twisted, or conformed to flesh thinking. Glad to remind you of this chapter Cal. It reminds us “God’s ways are not our ways and His thoughts are past finding out” Though it shows us God is not willing for any man to perish, many will, as we can see from verse 22.
        Can we not trust that the GOD of the Universe will do what is good and just! Our understanding is limited, as we “see through a glass darkly” …when the perfect has come we will know all things. In the meantime I trust Him and His word, what I don’t understand, I will leave with HIM. As for for Romans 9, it is God’s Sovereign choice and not hard to understand.

  20. John Chingford
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 04:40:58

    Due to John’s blasphemous statement below, I have decided to delete the rest of his message, I will not allow anyone to think they can come here and mock God’s true Justice and Mercy.
    This blog is a place to bring Glory and Honor to the One and ONLY LIVING God, and I will not allow Him to be belittled in such manner, and please let’s not take it personally!

    Thank you

    “Your god is not the God I worship and adore. According to the Bible, God DOES NOT delight in the death of the wicked. Well …….. if it is your god’s choice to send them to hell and they cannot do anything about it, then clearly it is his delight to do so. Can you not see that your doctrine has too many contradictions and too many “tensions”. Your god appears to be struggling with schizophrenia.”

    In His Eternal Love….

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 12, 2012 @ 09:18:22

      John, do you actually hear and read what you are saying?

      We serve a Just, Loving and merciful God.
      Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
      Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
      Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
      Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

      In His Eternal Love….

      Reply

  21. Margaret Galbraith
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 10:25:01

    I think it is wrong to block John.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 12, 2012 @ 16:03:51

      Margaret, I’ve prayed about it, and reconsidered it, I’m letting him to continue but there are rules of order I want to be followed, if people can’t then they don’t get to comment. I removed his statement except for the statement concerning the Lord being “schizophrenic”.

      Reply

      • Margaret Galbraith
        Sep 12, 2012 @ 17:40:52

        I am happy to hear that Cal… it shows you have been with the Lord, I understand how we can get offended when someone degrades the Lord, I can’t understand how a believer could write such a such a thing.
        One thing I would like to say to ‘lost and found’, Cal never once said he heard God’s voice audibly.Try and take in what you read, so as when you comment you will have your facts right little sheep!

      • cal4u
        Sep 12, 2012 @ 17:55:22

        Dear Margaret, thanks I also wrote something to ‘Lost and Found’, and I was honest concerning my concern she might be the “lady” from YouTube, well if you want read her comment, SHE’S NOT!!!!!!!! I’m so happy, just proves how I allowed fear to cloud my thoughts, such wickedness of the flesh! Oy…..but we both have come to an agreement that we just agree to disagree! Amen.
        Thanks for your faithfulness in being a true sister in correcting me.

        In His Eternal Love….

      • Margaret Galbraith
        Sep 12, 2012 @ 18:13:08

        I have just read it, now I am happy 🙂

  22. lost but found
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 10:40:16

    Cal, it is amazing to see you celebrate your “electness”, your special standing with God, thinking He has chosen you over others, passed them over for you. God is no respecter of persons according His Word in Romans 2:11. You can find a good explanation of this at http://www.bibletruths.net/Sermons/BTSO108.htm God is just and fair and His Gospel is an invitation to everyone who opens their heart to it. I praise God for His wide and deep mercy and His unmatchable grace toward ALL men. That is the true character of God – and someday you will find out the truth, that you have in fact blasphemed the very God you to claim to praise.

    God has never spoken audibly to me, but He does speak to my heart and He is telling me that you are in a cloud of deception and believing a lie and in a very dangerous place. I don’t see the need to hurl insults and call you ignorant and arrogant as you did me. In fact, I did the opposite and tried to be gracious to you. That is the evidence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    Cal, you are the one who has skirted direct and honest inquiries. You say you know nothing of Calvinist/Reformed theology and yet you follow blogs that teach that.

    I agree with John that you follow a false “god” conjured up in your own mind, citing Scripture and twisting it. Cal, you are the one who is blaspheming God. I have gone to John’s site – he has done his due diligence and is a serious student of the Word. We have both presented Scripture in the best way possible in this limited venue.

    I have spent precious time trying to shed some light on this topic but you have turned a blind eye at every turn. I do not like to argue and I am not angry. I am just very grieved that my God of love would be painted as One who creates people whom He has already condemned and He will never draw to Himself. God does not delight in sending anyone to hell. To say He does is blasphemy. My God hates sin but loves each and every sinner and He paid the price for each and every one of us. But not everyone will accept that free gift. That is what the Bible teaches in its whole and complete counsel. That is the theme of the Gospel.

    With your “god” there is no need for evangelism or missionaries or even the Great Commission!! You defy the mandate of our Lord Jesus when He said to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. That my friend, is serious stuff! Why would He say that? Because He died for all! When mankind refuses the free gift of salvation he condemns himself – God doesn’t do it! Can’t you see that? Do you even understand the Gospel? Have you ever had a burden for the lost? Do you not think God cares about the lost? Personally I have a burden for the lost in this world and I pray for those I know who don’t know my Lord Jesus and speak of Him when given opportunity to do so.

    Please, I plead with you – come out of the fog of deception you are in and listen to the voices of those who are trying to minister to you. Yes, minister the TRUTH.

    Grace and peace.

    Reply

  23. cal4u
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 15:40:54

    Lost and found, I’m sorry you feel that way, if that is the way you feel, I can’t help that. The Lord knows my heart, and that is all that is important. I will just say that we will just have to agree to disagree, I desire not to become more contentious.

    Now I need to say this because I want to be honest, that ever since you left your first comment that I’ve been on the defense. To be honest from the very beginning I felt our paths have crossed on a number of times on the YouTube website, a year or two ago. Have you a You Tube station?

    My name on the site is cal4u, how could you assume it’s a girl? I was suspicious from the start regarding your motives, and due to the language and the manner in which you use it, this seemed all too familiar, and I dreaded in sharing with you. I’ve been trying to be gracious, with some measure of victory, and trust me, I’ve had to re-write and edit out some of my responses to you, but alas not with total victory.

    If you are not this lady, I’ve had experiences with, actually myself and another gentleman in Europe who also felt (if this was you) she stalked and left some very raucous and ungracious comments where ever we left comments.
    I also discovered this woman changed her station name and still would follow me around, then I quit and left YouTube all together for that reason. So I need to know, because if I have erred in thinking you were she, then that explains in part my reaction to you. And I would most truly be sorry for mistaking you for her.

    I do confess I have issues with some type of women who are domineering, and abusive with their mouths, and language, (I’m not speaking swearing or cursing)
    I grew up with an abusive mother in many differing ways, sexually, physically, and emotionally, who was very violent during extreme bad emotional states. It’s understandable for she and her sister both were sexually abused by their father.
    I after meeting the Lord within a couple/three months got involved at first unknowingly with a home fellowship lead by a woman, who was the pastor, prophetess, and some thought Apostle. She was also domineering, abusive and manipulative, we were raided, she went to jail, for some of the abuses.
    There are other things I’ve suffered by the hands of women who have some type of authority.
    I see by my attitude in some of the comments, I’ve handled you in a bit of a rough shod and ungracious manner, I apologize and ask forgiveness.

    That is why I reminded you of “your place” regarding women over men. I knew my walls went up. I’m not a chauvinist by any means, matter of fact I’ve got more lady friends, then men friends, not too many Christian men know how to handle me.
    Any how with that being said, I have a very difficult time following the seeming chaotic manner in which you handle questions and jump around. So I do think it’s best to just leave it all in the hands of the Lord. I need deeper victory in this area, so it’s best we just let it lie.

    I still hold to everything that I have stated in regards to the topic, and nothing you have brought up has convinced me otherwise. I just want to write what I’ve come to understand and share, and then discuss with those who want to discuss in a biblical and with a respectable manner, instead of forcing it upon someone, I don’t think the Lord desires us to force or use pressure. We can have blind areas where the Lord has not yet given us understanding, we can be at different levels in our faith walk with the Lord. So we may have to be patient.

    I would not say that your god is the devil, that would be presumptuous on my part, but I assure you I know God is merciful, and Just, loving the same as you do, but in this regard we are at a standstill.
    I have not read everything on my blog list, but some of the things I’ve read I liked, but I do work, and I’ve just had not enough time to read it all. So do not judge me by that.

    That’s all I feel to say, if you forgive me thank you, and the Lord bless you.
    In His Eternal Love……

    Reply

  24. John Chingford
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 16:26:52

    Cal

    I see you have rearranged things and changed some of the things you said earlier. THAT is to your credit and shows a mark of humility. Bless you.

    Firstly, there was nothing in what I wrote earlier or in what was deleted by you that was blasphemous against the True and Living God.

    Please understand that I wrote the way I did because of my concern and zeal for the true and living God. We are called to “contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to us”. One of the things we need to contend for is the truth about God, My concern is that the “no free will” teaching inevitably will lead to an uncertainty about the nature of God and therefore to a belief that CANNOT give full assurance of salvation. My desire and prayer to God is that all believers can know intimately the true nature of God and rest in that security.

    Having said these things, I would like to say something about John 3:16.

    All reputed Bible versions are translated from the original manuscripts and basically all give an identical message which is:

    “for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life”

    However, this is how the calvinist “bible” reads as interpreted by them:

    “For God so loved His elect (the chosen few) that He gave His only begotten Son so that none of the elect will perish but have everlasting life”

    Can’t you see the problem with this?

    Not only is it deliberately twisting what the scriptures clearly teach, i.e. that God loves EVERYBODY and does not want any to perish but that ALL should come to repentance and that He has made a way for everybody to be saved from our sins by believing in Jesus BY FREEWILL, but their interpretation makes no sense anyway.

    If they were correct and that God had already chosen them before Jesus died on the cross and that they were regenerate BEFORE coming to faith then why do they need Jesus to die for their sins?

    Secondly, why does it state that they will not perish if it is impossible for the chosen few to perish anyway because they were saved “before the foundation of the Earth”?

    Sorry, but Calvinist teaching is nonsensical, illogical and irrational at best and at worst blasphemous.

    I will explain why it is blaspemous and why I have serious concerns about what they teach:

    Calvinists paint and declare a god who’s good pleasure is to create people to use and then send to hell to be tormented for eternity. Therefore, they present a god who is unmerciful, a tyrant, uncaring towards those he has not chosen.

    If this is the god they believe in then how can they have assurance in their hearts that their god will not later turn on them too in heaven?. How can they trust their god if his character is as they (as calvinists) describe it?

    For the scriptures says that “God does all things for His good pleasure” eg’s Psalm 135:6, Eph 1:5, Phil 2:13 and “who can resist his will” Rom 9:19

    This means that (with their interpretation) God creates multitudes to send to eternal hell and eternal torment for his good pleasure.

    Their god is not the same God that I worship and adore because according to the Bible, God DOES NOT delight in the death of the wicked. Ezek 33:11:

    “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways”

    Well …….. if it is their god’s choice to send many to eternal hell and torment and they cannot do anything about it, then clearly it is their god’s delight to do so..

    Sorry, I cannot accept that God is like that, neither is He contradictory to His Word. We have to accept that some verses are being interpreted incorrectly because God NEVER contradicts His word. The Bible is the innerrant Word of God but our interpretations can be in error – not God.

    Regarding Romans 9. If you will allow, I would like to tackle that very chapter and show (through using the context of chapter 9 as it relates to the whole book of Romans) how it is NOT talking about individuals being created for the purpose of being used and then sent to hell.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 12, 2012 @ 21:12:55

      Dear John, I just wanted to add since I’ve had a break and reread your last entry, I do not agree with Calvinist teachings as you have presented them. I’ve never read them, nor reformed teachings.

      I also know and believe that those who are separated from the Lord for all eternity was due to them not having a heart for Him, they had unbelief, for the Lord knows the heart. My father said the prayer and went to United Methodist Church, but I never saw any real fruit, he did it to make sure he didn’t end up in Hell. That is NOT the reason to accept the Lord, for your “protection” and eternal “happiness”, that is part of the perks, sort of speaking. There is no Love of God in that. I believe the person should desire Him and want Him for Him, and only He can give it to us, as He grants us the gift of repentance. My father has since passed, over a year ago, lost forever, but he will not have any excuse.

      I have been to your blog, and I do agree with some of the topics you have written, we are more like minded than you suppose. I shall be over to read more. I just want to keep to the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus, as I do sense you do also.

      I praise the Lord for this whole experience, for we do learn, one way or another.
      I just wanted you to know I’m not discounting you all together, I’d like to keep an open door as long as there is no pushing involved.

      The Lord bless you and keep you.

      In His Eternal Love….

      Reply

  25. cal4u
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 16:53:54

    Dear John C, thank you for your response, but I will not be sharing any text with you or ‘lost and found’, it’s to no advantage, I disagree with your interpretation, I believe in what I’ve been taught by the Lord. I will stand on His Word. We must agree to disagree, for I desire to keep the peace.

    We shall ALL know where we have erred when we pass from here into His Loving Kingdom and be judged by Christ accordingly for each good and bad that we have done.

    If you press this issue then you are trying to force your version of the scriptures, and that is not the way of our Lord. I hope you understand, if not, the Lord does.

    I still think it was blasphemous to state what you did. I do not state to you or ‘lost and found’ that your god is the devil. I would not be so presumptuous.

    The Lord bless you,
    In His Eternal Love………

    Reply

  26. lost but found
    Sep 12, 2012 @ 17:25:38

    Hi Cal,

    I assure you I am not the lady to which you refer. And I do wholeheartedly forgive you for jumping to that conclusion.

    I too had an abusive, cruel mother who was mentally ill and a father who escaped into a bottle of booze. But God has been good to me and I have a loving husband and children. But the journey has been a rough one and scars remain. I am sorry that you had to endure what you went through.

    If I came on too strong it was because you were basically saying that my belief was a lie of Satan. That is in fact saying the way I see God is of Satan. I firmly believe in evangelism with the complete Gospel and have seen people in the valley of decision, under conviction of the Holy Spirit. It is clear that they are being drawn but some refuse and some receive.

    Also, I honestly and sincerely have a deep concern for those holding to the beliefs you embrace because I believe they are damaging. So I spoke out of a concern for you. If I went about it in the wrong way I am truly sorry.

    You are right, we will have to “agree to disagree” here and leave it with the Lord.
    So I extend to you grace and peace as the Apostle Paul said many times in his letters.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Sep 12, 2012 @ 17:46:35

      Dear Lost and Found, well thank you for letting me know, I’ve been in torment, somewhat, I even talked with a lady sister in the Lord about it. I was so sure! Phewwwwww.
      So we start anew! Okay, boy that’s better. Like you I talk to people all the time to concerning the Lord as the door is opened. I also believe as long as we testify to the reality of our God, the Lord will give the increase in His time in His way. So I don’t know from where you’d think that I wouldn’t testify of Jesus to people.
      So I don’t agree with that if that is what, as you call them Calvinists do literally preach. No my life, like the man who had a legion of demons which the Lord delivered, I’m also to testify to the miracle He worked into my life! And he is not done with me yet! As we have just witnessed to!

      I don’t know if you have read my blog, but I also contend for the faith, I’ve been involved with a woman lead cult, pentecostal influences, Manifested sons of God, Latter Rain, Hyper faith, name it claim it, the emotionalism’s of all that, so on, an so forth. But the Lord in His Gracious Mercy, each year brought me around to His Truth, and undid quite a bit of false teachings, fears, deep, deep wounds, gender confusion, repressed memories of the sexual abuse, the rejection of father, mother, witchcraft, Oy…….I could go on.

      So you see I’m a believer, and the Lord is with me, and Jesus Christ and His Eternal Sonship has always been and always will be.
      Anyway don’t want to bore you. Thank you for the forgiveness, and bearing the hatchet!
      We move forward, onward and upward in our Jesus!

      In His Eternal Love….

      Reply

  27. John Chingford
    Sep 13, 2012 @ 12:47:29

    In Response to Margaret.
    Hi Margaret,

    You asked why we had not replied re Romans chapter 9. First of all the context of chapter 9 is a very big subject and very time consuming to explain. I personally did not feel that that chapter (on its own) needed to be specifically tackled. I follow the rule that if some isolated verses (or even a chapter) seems to say something contradictory to the rest of the Bible then it must be US who are interpreting that passage incorrectly. We should NEVER make a doctrine out of isolated passages – very dangerous.

    However (to make things easier ) we tried to keep to the obvious more simplified parts of the Bible to make our point, such as showing that God is not a god who takes pleasure in creating to destroy.

    Anyway, having been pushed into this, I will share a few things that I have discovered in Romans 9 through my studies and investigations, even though I lack available time to do this, but I will try – maybe I will add to it as/when I have time. I may collate it together later into one article on my blog.

    Let us look at the context of Romans 9. First, who was Paul writing to? Was it Jews or Gentiles? It appears primarily Jews but also to Gentiles. Why did Paul apparently swap his line of thought in Romans 8 and insert chapters 9-11 before continuing on again in ch 12? Some say it was a digression. Actually, if you were to read all the chapters 1 to 16, you will actually see that chapters 1 to 8 were a build up or foundation to the main thrust of his message, i.e. chapters 9-11 are the KEY to the whole book. If the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write the Book of Romans as part of the inerrant Word of God, then it cannot possibly be a digression because that would not imply inspiration. Therefore, ch’s 9-11 are in the exact right place for a purpose to tell us something.

    Therefore, you CANNOT make interpretations from just chapter 9 without getting it into the context of the whole book of Romans. Please bear in mind that when Paul uses the word “you” he is mostly referring to the corporate body of Christ and not just individuals. God had always pre ordained that the gentiles would also become attached to the redeemed people of God. The church was a mystery to all (apart from God) in the OT and that God was going to bring Jews and Gentiles alike (who put their faith in the Messiah Jesus) into a united kingdom of God.

    Therefore YES the gentiles (as a corporate body) were predestined to become a part of God’s kingdom. This was the thrust of most of Paul’s writings and was no different throughout the Book of Romans.

    Remember Paul was called to be an apostle to the gentiles and often had to explain God’s purposes for the gentiles to the Jewish Christian community. Paul demonstrates throughout book of Romans that God ‘s eternal plan was to save every people’s group – not just the Jews.

    When Paul talked about the potter, he was probably reminded by the Holy Spirit of Jeremiah 18. Jeremiah 18 is all about God’s chosen people in the OT – the Jews and how God wanted to mold them but they would not let Him.

    That is interesting. If God does not give them freewill, then how could they prevent God from molding them if it is God’s Will to mold them? I encourage you to read the whole chapter. In the same way Jesus said to Israel “how often I would have gathered you together as a hen gathers her chicks, but you would not”. Again THEY chose to reject God out of free will.

    Here is a portion of Jeremiah 18 (verses 3-12):

    “So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. Then the word of the LORD came to me.

    He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted,10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

    “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the LORD says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’”

    Let us look again at Romans 9:20-24:
    “But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

    What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?”

    That passage is talking about God’s choice to choose the gentiles to become the objects of mercy and that the unbelieving Jews would experience God’s wrath for rejecting Jesus. That is again emphasised in Ch 11.

    Regarding your statement from John 15:16 “ you did not choose me I chose you” Jesus was speaking directly to the apostles about their calling as apostles. But there again, God calls and chooses everybody and gives enough grace to enable them to repent but many (using free will) decide to reject Christ. Absolutely no-one chooses Christ without the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us of righteousness, sin and judgement and reveals the truth about Jesus and His love, but He never forces conversion because God gave us freewill. Jesus chose the apostles and drew them after Him. Before Jesus called them to follow Him, they were not interested. In fact Peter told Jesus to depart from him. However, as God saw into the heart of David “a man after my own heart” so He saw into the hearts of the apostles and knew that these men would be worthy to be His apostles. He chose them – they did not choose Him initially but were won over to follow Jesus. BUT they still exercised free will.

    Reply

  28. mikejeshurun
    Oct 09, 2012 @ 09:31:28

    Truly a much needed post, Brother Cal. I did read some of the comments to this post and was saddened by those who were trying to repudiate you and affirm that man indeed does have a ‘free-will’ to choose or reject God. But let us be reminded that even to see the truth concerning ‘free-will’, it is the gift of God! Here are a few thoughts in support of what you have already written –

    This is what Christ testified concerning Satan – “He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for HE IS A LIAR, AND THE FATHER OF IT”! [John 8:44]

    The Serpent had lied that “God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”. [Gen 3:5]

    It is truly interesting to note that the EXACT OPPOSITE is what resulted in partaking of the fruit in disobedience to God! Man’s eyes were not ‘opened’, as the evil one suggested but they were BLINDED!

    Much is said in the Scriptures about this terrible affliction. Men are represented as groping at noonday (Deut. 28:29). “They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night” (Job 5:14). “They know not, neither will they understand.” And why? “They walk on in darkness” (Ps. 82:5). It cannot be otherwise. Alienated from Him who is light, they must be in total spiritual darkness. “The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble” (Prov. 4:19). They are insensible of the very things which are leading to everlasting woe. Moral depravity inevitably results in moral darkness. As a physically blind eye shuts out all natural light, so the blinded eye of the soul excludes all spiritual light. It renders the Scriptures profitless. In this respect the case of the Gentiles is identical with that of the Jews: “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament” (II Cor. 3:14). Consequently the highest wisdom they call foolish, and objects which are the most glorious and attractive are despised and rejected by them.

    The Devil also promised our first parents that they would be as gods knowing good and evil! But what was it that followed the eating of the forbidden fruit?

    A perverted judgment! So that man is lacking in any true sense of values; and hence, it is that the Word of truth says, “Woe to those who call evil good—and good evil, who put darkness for light—and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet—and sweet for bitter!” (Isaiah 5:20). So completely has sin blinded the unregenerate, that they suppose that bondage is freedom; and freedom is bondage.

    For the same reason men are said to be “sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge” (Jer. 4:22). That this is the cause of the greatest part of the wickedness in the world is clear from Isaiah 47:10: “Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee.” Corrupt reasoning and false judgment are the prime motivations of all our sinning.

    So contrary to the devil’s promise, man’s eyes were not ‘opened’ but rather shut in blindness.

    The Apostle Paul’s direct commission from the mouth of the Lord was – “(the Gentiles) unto whom now I send thee,To OPEN THEIR EYES, and to turn them from DARKNESS TO LIGHT, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me”! [Acts 26:15-18]

    Oh let us thank God that we too were once in darkness, but now are we light in the Lord: (let us) walk as children of light”! [Eph 5:8]

    Now what do we mean when we say that man does not have a ‘free-will’?

    First let us explain what we do not mean. We do not mean that in the general course of things that a man does not have the power to choose. Starting from when he wakes up in the morning, a man ‘chooses’ whether he should go to work or stay back, whether he should have meat and potatoes or bread and eggs for breakfast and so on. Man is constantly making choices and is free to do so.

    But when it comes to believing in the Lord Jesus and following Him as His disciple, MAN’S WILL IS NOT FREE! Instead of saying, “God GIVES us the ‘freedom of will'” to choose Him, it would be more accurate to say – that God GAVE us the freedom of will in Adam, but we squandered it by disobedience and brought ourselves into bondage!

    In unfallen Adam the will was free, free in both directions, free toward good and free toward evil. Adam was created in a state of innocency, but not in a state of holiness, as is so often assumed and asserted. Adam’s will was therefore in a condition of moral equipoise: that is to say, in Adam there was no constraining bias in him toward either good or evil, and as such, Adam differed radically from all his descendants. But with the fallen sinner it is far otherwise.

    The sinner is born with a will that is not in a condition of moral equipoise, because in him there is a heart that is “deceitful above all things and desperately wicked”, and this gives him a bias toward evil. . Now in contradistinction from the will of the Lord Jesus which was biased toward good, and Adam’s will which, before his fall, was in a condition of moral equipoise — capable of turning toward either good or evil — the sinner’s will is biased toward evil, and therefore is free in one direction only, namely, in the direction of evil. The sinner’s will is enslaved because it is in bondage to and is the servant of a depraved heart.

    “In what does the sinner’s freedom consist? This question is naturally suggested by what we have just said above. The sinner is “free” in the sense of being unforced from without. God never forces the sinner to sin. But the sinner is not “free” to do either good or evil, because an evil heart within is ever inclining him toward sin. Let us illustrate what we have in mind. I hold in my hand a book. I release it; what happens? It falls. In which direction? Downwards; always downwards. Why? Because, answering the law of gravity, its own weight sinks it. Suppose I desire that book to occupy a position three feet higher; then what? I must lift it; a power outside of that book must raise it.

    Such is the relationship which fallen man sustains toward God. While divine power upholds him, he is preserved from plunging still deeper into sin; let that power be withdrawn, and he falls — his own weight (of sin) drags him down. God does not push him down, any more than I did that book. Let all divine restraint be removed, and every man is capable of becoming, would become, a Cain, a Pharaoh, a Judas. How then is the sinner to move heavenwards? BY AN ACT OF HIS OWN WILL? NOT SO! A power outside of himself must grasp hold of him and lift him every inch of the way. The sinner is free, but free in one direction only — free to fall, free to sin. As the Word expresses it: “For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness” Rom. 6:20. The sinner is free to do as he pleases, always as he pleases (except as he is restrained by God), but his pleasure is to sin”. [A.W. Pink]

    So, Does it lie within the power of man’s will to accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour? Let us attempt an answer by asking several others: Can water (of itself) rise above its own level? Can a clean thing come out of an unclean? Can the will reverse the whole tendency and strain of human nature? Can that which is under the dominion of sin originate that which is pure and holy? Manifestly not. If ever the will of a fallen and depraved creature is to move God-wards, a Divine power must be brought to bear upon it which will overcome the influences of sin that pull in a counter direction.

    This is only another way of saying, “No man CAN COME to me, except the Father which hath sent me, DRAW him” John 6:44. In other words, God’s people must be made willing in the day of His power [Psa. 110:3]. As said John Nelson Darby, “If Christ came to save that which is lost, free will has no place. Not that God prevents men from receiving Christ — far from it. But even when God uses all possible inducements, all that is capable of exerting influence in the heart of man, it only serves to show that man will have none of it, that so corrupt is his heart, and so decided his will not to submit to God (however much it may be the devil who encourages him to sin) that nothing can induce him to receive the Lord, and to give up sin”!

    So then Salvation “is not of him that WILLETH, nor of him that RUNNETH, but OF GOD that sheweth mercy” Rom. 9:16.

    “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me, DRAW him” John 6:44.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Oct 13, 2012 @ 09:11:27

      Dear Mike, I’m sorry it took so long to respond, but I thought I did! But I got it confused with another title.
      I thank you for expounding on this further, I realize we have a will, humanly speaking, we make choices and decisions based on what we personally desire, which is still shrouded in darkness and sin. But when confronted with the things of God, it is ALL of His design and will.
      The Lord bless you.

      In His eternal love……

      Reply

  29. John Chingford
    Oct 14, 2012 @ 05:16:40

    Hi Mike

    May I ask if you read my last comment and my other ones?

    No-one has addressed directly to my comments regarding freewill. I have used the Word of God. However, Calvinists tend to use the teachings of the church fathers.

    Paul tells us in his letters that he spent much of his time WARNING night and day “with tears flowing” about the wolves about to come into the church to ravage the sheep. Paul said that this would happen shortly after his departure and also said that it was already starting to happen. Therefore, HOW can you trust the writings of the church fathers in the second century onwards? They are probably the wolves that Paul was referring to. Augustine was one such false teacher who embraced gnosticism and Christianised it.

    Regarding freewill. I wrote an article on my blog giving a TRUE exposition of Romans 9. Please check it out and let me have your replies to it.

    http://www.watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/romans-chapter-9-does-not-disprove.html

    Reply

    • Margaret Galbraith
      Oct 14, 2012 @ 05:44:30

      Do not put any man’s name to our faith …I will let the others speak for themselves! … I only believe the the Bible, and do not look to ‘man’… As the Bible states, “the Holy Spirit is my teacher”. He enlightened me to the fact that I had not chosen Jesus, by Jesus’s own words “you did not choose me, I chose you” was Jesus lying!!!!!!!! Which was followed up over time, by all the other scriptures expounding this subject. I didn’t answer your comment to me, as your mind is closed and we are told not to get into endless arguments. Mike and Cal gave you God’s word on this matter and you seem to ignore the scriptures, so what else can we say?
      In spite of difference’s, we are to love one another.

      Reply

    • cal4u
      Nov 01, 2012 @ 23:14:40

      Dear John, I have re-read Romans and have found that your interpretation is found wanting for you are forcing the “free will” issue to fit your mental and fleshly understanding of what Paul is saying, all in order to justify your further belief in free will.
      When I read it I found that Paul truly is confirming that all Jew and Gentile have been grafted into the Vine, Jesus, by His Grace, and ordained predestination according to His Will and Purpose. Romans explains this quite clearly through out the book. We are nothing, Jesus is everything, and everything including Salvation was wrought from, granted unto ALL that He has willed for Salvation. And that as we who are truly born of His Spirit according to His Will, need to live our lives always depending upon Him for ALL WORKS of righteousness to be worked out in our self-serving, self-centered selves. For without Him, we can do absolutely nothing, except to surrender ourselves unto Him as a living sacrifice and that even requires His grace to get us there.
      Romans 11 also particularly teaches, it’s ALL Done by God, and not by what any man can or will do. And He Alone gets ALL the GLORY:
      Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
      Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
      Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
      Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
      Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
      Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
      Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
      Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
      Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
      Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
      Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
      Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
      Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
      Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
      Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
      Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
      Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
      Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
      Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
      Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
      Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
      Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
      Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
      Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
      Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
      Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
      Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
      Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
      Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
      Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
      Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
      Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
      Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
      Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
      Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
      Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
      May the Lord grant you the grace to see, for only HE can remove the scales from our eyes Jew or Gentile as mentioned above in Romans 11.
      In His Eternal Love…….

      Reply

  30. mikejeshurun
    Oct 15, 2012 @ 06:26:13

    Hi John!
    For the record, I have been in the preaching business for a good 27 years strong! And if there is anything my preaching experience has taught me, it is that I cannot convince men against their own will. It matters little to me what Augustine, Calvin or Spurgeon believed and taught. The thing that matters is what the Scriptures teach and what my own experience has taught me.

    I was a Christ-hating, Bible-burning, blaspheming drug addict and alcoholic and hard core Satanist whom God sovereignly saved by taking away my ‘stony heart’ and giving me a heart of flesh! I would have NEVER chosen my Lord if He was the last option left on earth and my life depended on it! How could I? He was my sworn enemy and I wanted nothing to do with Him.

    So what made me turn around and love Him and be wiling to die for Him? The same thing that made a murderous Saul turn around and say, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain”! [Phil 1:21]. Would anyone be foolish enough to contend that Saul ‘accepted Christ’ of his own ‘free-will’?

    Oh but Paul’s case was an exception!

    NO it wasn’t! Paul’s life and testimony was a ‘PATTERN’ of the manner in which all who became Christians later by God’s sovereign and undeserving mercy would experience! “Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that IN ME FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting”! [1Tm 1:16]

    But here’s the bottom line, John . . . Cal and I are asserting that it is GOD who has made us to differ from the unbelieving world, while you are contending that YOU had a part to play in it. Cal and I asserting that it was the Father who ‘drew’ or ‘dragged’ us to Christ; while you are claiming to have come on your own! And finally when Cal and I are affirming that “It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy” you are contending for the very opposite!

    If Augustine or Calvin believed what Cal and I hold and teach, then good for them! But honestly, that means nothing to us! We would believe and teach God’s sovereignty in salvation even if the whole of Christendom believed differently.

    John, there are a few things in Scripture which can be ‘debated’. For instance true Christians hold to different views on Eschatology and there are many sincere Christians who differ on how the Lord’s supper should be observed etc. But when it comes to the question of ‘free-will’ there is no room for debate! You either believe that fallen man has a free-will to come to God or you don’t! And just like the doctrine of the Trinity or the Deity of Christ, it takes ‘revelation from above’ to receive the truth that fallen man is both deaf and blind and even dead to the things of the Spirit until the Spirit first sovereignly quicken him! It takes more than an intelligent brain or a smart intellect to receive this truth.

    So please let us not debate and argue on this any further. We will only be wasting each-other’s time.
    In Christian love
    Mike!

    P.S. You asked, if I have read your last comment or the previous ones on the subject on hand. To be honest, I haven’t. I have spent more than 20 years of my Christian life studying every argument that there is in favour of ‘free-will’. Trust me, I’ve heard it all. And time is very precious for someone like me, and I would not want to waste it on something of which I am completely convinced of! No offence.

    Reply

  31. mikejeshurun
    Oct 15, 2012 @ 13:07:41

    This is in response to ‘lost but found’ who has said more than once in the comments above that God is ‘no respecter of persons’ [Rom 2:11]. In fact objectors to God’s Sovereign Election always love to quote this verse, as though that would nullify and prove false the fact that God elects some to salvation.

    So what does it mean when the Scripture says that ‘God is not a respecter or persons’?

    A “respecter of persons” is one who, acting as judge, does not treat those who come before him according to their character, but who withholds from some WHAT IS JUSTLY THEIRS AND GIVES TO OTHERS WHAT IS NOT JUSTLY THEIRS — one who is governed by prejudice and sinister motives, rather than by justice and law. The Scriptures deny that God is a respecter of persons in this sense; and if the doctrine of Predestination represented God as doing these things, we admit that it would charge Him with injustice.

    First of all we need to see the truth that ALL MEN ARE ALREADY JUDGED AND CONDEMNED IN ADAM. God does not owe them ANYTHING, but HELL! If He had so determined, He could have condemned the whole human race to hell according to His justice and none would question Him as to “what doest Thou”? [Dan 4:35] This should not sound as strange to anyone seeing that He condemned ALL the angels that sinned to an eternal hell without any mercy or redemption.

    When we speak of salvation, we are speaking of mercy and grace, and neither of them can be claimed as a right! Mercy is God’s property and He can give it to whomsoever He chooses! “Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with MINE OWN? Is thine eye evil, because I am good”? [Matt 20:15]

    The love of the father is a DISCRIMINATIVE love! It CHOOSES whom to love and whom to hate. Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated! [Rom 9:13]

    In the same line He chooses on whom He will have mercy and on whom He will harden! [Rom 9:18]

    If God was dealing with a BUNCH OF INNOCENT MEN AND WOMEN THIS WOULD SEEM UNJUST! But God is dealing with a FALLEN bunch of GOD HATERS WHO ARE HIS ENEMIES (see Rom 5:10), and if there is anything He owes them it is HELL!

    So out of this ‘Hell-Deserving’ bunch or ‘lump’ He chooses to display His unconditional mercy on some and the rest He ordains to eternal damnation which they rightly deserve!

    These are the facts! If you are really saved sooner or later God will show you this truth!
    If the Father was choosing everyone and drawing everyone as some suppose, then, scriptures like these make no sense –
    “Blessed is the man whom Thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in Thy courts”! [Psa 65:4]

    Notice that these few whom the Father loves, He not only ‘CHOOSES’, but ‘CAUSES’ to approach unto Him!

    Fallen man is so depraved that just ‘choosing him’ is not going to save him!! God must ‘CAUSE’ him to approach! In other words, the Father must not only choose or elect those whom He loves, but He must DRAW them to Christ!

    And He does not draw all, because He has not chosen all. And He has not chosen all, because He has not loved all!

    Reply

  32. Lost But Found
    Oct 18, 2012 @ 12:46:02

    Lost But Found, “1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.”
    This blog is for the purpose to reveal the truths the Lord has caused me to come to know and understand through the Holy Spirit. It is open for conversation to discuss matters concerning the Lord’s Word and His ways, for the edifying of the saints, and possibly the Lord may use it to draw those who have been “ordained” to receive His Salvation, the forgiveness of sins, unto Eternal Life.

    Since you refuse to discuss in a sincere manner I must inform you that you will not be able to comment any further on this blog because you are of a divisive mindset, unteachable, and a woman, who from your own words, “I have ACCEPTED the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and have been walking with Him for over 50 years.” who does not walk in meekness, humility, and sincerity, who falsely accuses and twists other people’s words using scriptures to suit your own fleshly understanding of the Word of God. It is obvious you have not heard from the Lord, you’ve known Him for 50 years and you speak like this? That is not how a mature Christian and Godly woman would act, so it is doubtful you do know the Lord, for you approach this subject from a spirit of fear, and fear has torment, and it is not from the Lord.

    I’m keeping parts of your latest comments to be shown in order to let others see how a ungodly woman re-acts. I will, after this has been open to the public for a length of time will eventually delete your comment, for nothing in it is from a true biblical understanding.

    I leave these scriptures for you to read and to take note:
    2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    Mike, first of all, your pride is astounding! You refer to your service to God as “preaching business”. You pridefully state your years of experience and set yourself up as an expert. Then you imply that I am not saved! The arrogance of your statements is indicative of YOUR blindness! You have spent all those years being INDOCTRINATED into lies.

    You insult our Lord Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross – He came to redeem any and all who would RESPOND to the Holy Spirit. Our God is a loving Father and our Lord Jesus welcomes all prodigals who surrender their lives to Him. The Bible speaks about this over and over again. Our Lord’s last mandate to the Church was the Great Commission. You are correct, there is nothing good in mankind and one is not saved by good deeds that are accomplished even by unsaved people. You will find humanitarian acts of kindness being carried out by those who are not true Christians, but they are blind to spiritual truth. Their good deeds are as filthy rags in the eyes of God unless one surrenders and receives, accepts and applies the sacrifice on the cross to oneself personally.

    You show your pride when you won’t even consider what others are saying. John Chingford is a student of the Word and he is careful to rightly divide it. He does not arrogantly set himself up as an authority, but he points to the Word and makes an honest and forthright presentation that you avoid to your peril. You sir, are the blind one.

    I have ACCEPTED the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and have been walking with Him for over 50 years. I do not consider myself an expert, but I do know Him as a COMPASSIONATE Savior and have had the pleasure of seeing multitudes ACCEPT him on the mission field as the Word of God is presented and it requires a RESPONSE on their part. God NEVER forces or drags anyone into the kingdom. The Holy Spirit is gentle in His convicting and DRAWING. Your picture of a god who overpowers and coerces someone is NOT the God of the Bible!!

    Every single person who is born into this world has the GIFT of eternal life set aside for them. ***My note, this is found no where in God’s Word, this is a fairy tale*** Eternal life is a GIFT. You don’t force a gift on anyone – you offer it but it CAN be refused and most will do so because of the state of man’s heart due to the FALL.

    When our Lord hung on that cross, He bore the sins of ALL the world, NOT a select elect. God ALLOWS man the ability to choose between spiritual life and death. He is not willing that ANY should perish and the Bible says He does not delight in the punishment of the wicked.

    Jesus said the field are white unto harvest, but the laborers are few. This means that there are MANY who need to hear the Gospel message. In your 27 years how many times have you shared the Gospel or prayed for the lost? Or do you not think it necessary to so so since it is all cut and dried? We labor in prayer months before we go on the mission field and intercede for the lost souls and that God would soften their hearts and go before us. Are you saying this is not necessary and of no effect? My Lord cares about EVERY single person on this planet and every single person who will ever be born!! He desires to draw them to Himself. It is absolutely astounding to me that someone would so and motives of our wonderful, awesome,
    righteous, holy and yet compassionate God.

    Over the years I have encountered those who believe as you do whether they call themselves Calvinist, Reformed or generic. Over and over I have gone to the Word to seek God for answers and each time I have come away reaffirmed that this interpretation of what God’s Word says is wrong, horribly wrong. I say this humbly and with much consternation because it deeply concerns me that this doctrine is so destructive and damaging to the cause of Christ. The Body of Christ is not some elite “club” that one has to be elected to join. It is free to ALL who will surrender themselves to Christ and acknowledge that He is the only answer to their helpless estate.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Oct 31, 2012 @ 08:40:27

      I’ve added to your comment, I’ve given you notice that your comments will no longer be approved on this blog. Every thing you wrote is not from a true Biblical understanding, nor are some of your thoughts expressed supported in God’s Word, and in one place I’ve made BOLD what is a false teaching with comment.

      Reply

    • Margaret Galbraith
      Oct 31, 2012 @ 12:40:26

      How would you explain Revelation 13: 8 ….
      “And all who dwell on the earth will worship him (the beast) WHOSE NAMES HAVE NOT BEEN WRITTEN IN the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. ??

      Reply

      • cal4u
        Nov 01, 2012 @ 22:39:38

        Dearest Margaret, thanks for sharing that, that is one verse which never came to mind, and it speaks volumes, I will need to study that for myself. Blessings to you and your household.
        In His Eternal Love……….

      • Margaret Galbraith
        Nov 03, 2012 @ 15:03:56

        Sorry Cal, I just found your reply, I have just checked my e:mails. Yes, this verse confirms all the others mentioned. God always has the last word …!

  33. Redeemed
    Oct 30, 2012 @ 16:45:19

    Amen to this original post and all who posted to uphold the biblical teaching that rightly proclaims the Sovereignty of God and His Will in choosing to grant mercy to some when we all are rightly condemned for our sin and rebellion against God. God chooses who He is in covenant with, not us. I have also witnessed the outright anger at God’s Sovereignty and the unwillingness to let go of ‘self’….in this case ‘self-will’. The saving gospel calls for a death of ‘self’ in all its forms.

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Oct 31, 2012 @ 07:32:35

      Dear Redeemed, I give the Lord above all the thanks for revealing His truths to His chosen children. For it is the Lord which has caused us to walk in His Light, to walk in His Truth, as He reveals to us by His Holy Spirit through living revelation what His mind is in all things.
      Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
      Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
      Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
      Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
      Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
      Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

      The Lord bless you for your encouraging words.
      In His Eternal Love……..

      Reply

  34. Redeemed
    Nov 01, 2012 @ 23:56:05

    John,
    if God loves everyone equally and He has made a way for everybody to be saved from their sins as you suggest, then how do you explain this response by Jesus to His disciples when they wondered why He used parables to teach:
    “And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is not given.” (Mathew 13:10-11).

    Many Christians believe that Jesus taught in parables to make His message clearer to the average man, but that is not what the scriptures teach. Even when His disciples had to have these parables explained to them Jesus often did that by telling them another parable. Repeatedly, they asked Jesus to explain the parables to them:
    “And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable. And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables. That seeing they may see, and not perceive: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?”(Mark 4:10-13)

    This passage reveals that Jesus didn’t teach so that all would understand. If they could not understand His teachings, they could not be converted by His Truth.
    “The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

    Without the Spirit of God, Paul describes the spiritual search of men this way:
    “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (2 Timothy 3:7)

    Even the disciples didn’t understand until Jesus opened their ears to hear: “And He said unto them, These are the words which I spoke unto you while I was yet with you that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me. Then, He opened their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures.” (Luke 24:44-45)

    One can only understand the Scriptures when his heart, eyes, and mind have been opened to truth by Jesus Christ through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Without this gift of God, the parable story can only be understood at the literal level (with the five senses), rather than at the spiritual:
    “For whosoever has, to him shall be given more, and he shall have more abundance; but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even what he has. Therefore, I speak to them in parables: because they seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not, neither do they understand…And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah… For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:10-15)

    Jesus makes it clear that God does not owe the truth to any man. Jesus directed His parables to each listener “who has ears to hear” (Mark 4:9). Truth is a great gift, a very great blessing, which He hides from most and reveals to a few, His saints, at His own choosing:
    “At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” (Matthew 11:25-27)

    Jesus said, “You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you.” (John 15:16)

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Nov 02, 2012 @ 07:35:35

      Redeemed, thank you for bringing these scriptures forward and sharing them for they surely are “gems” of truth which undoubtedly provides further evidence that it is God that does ALL the choosing of mankind, not mankind choosing God. I Praise the Lord that He causes His Children to work together for the good of the brethren, the body of Christ, AMEN!

      As God did choose the Hebrews for a peculiar people unto Himself, He does the same amongst the gentiles. There was nothing special about the Hebrews, it was just of His choosing and nothing more. So there is no reason to boast whatsoever be it Jew or Gentile.

      Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
      Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
      Deu 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
      Deu 10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.
      Psa 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
      Psa 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

      The Lord Bless you…..
      In His Eternal Love……..

      Reply

  35. Peg Montag
    Nov 02, 2012 @ 09:34:26

    Cal4U,
    It does surprise me that many that hold to God’s unitlateral Election of Israel as His Chosen Covenant people, then turn around and deny the doctrine of Election for the salvation of men’s souls. God reveals His character in the bible, including His Sovereign Will. It is the same God from Genesis to Revelation – He doesn’t change.
    May the Lord Greatly Bless You as well for boldy proclaiming what so few want to hear. It is unbelief and pride that blinds men from the truth of God. God resists the proud, but exalts the humble. May we all humble ourselves daily before our great and Sovereign God.

    Redeemed. 🙂

    Reply

    • cal4u
      Nov 02, 2012 @ 16:01:35

      Greetings Peg, thanks for gracing my blog with your presence along with your confirming and encouraging words, I’m grateful, let the Lord be praised!
      I also would like to add a resounding AMEN to your comment….it is so true.
      Well I hope to have you back soon as the Lord Wills it.
      The Lord bless you and meet all your needs.
      In His Eternal Love……..

      Reply

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